Malaysians enjoy freedom governed by law regardless of whether Malaysia is dubbed an Islamic state or not, said Human Rights Commission of Malaysia (Suhakam) chairperson Abu Talib Othman.

In a two-hour interview with malaysiakini, Abu Talib disagreed with suggestions that declarations of Malaysia being an Islamic state had implications on human rights.

"The fact is that an Islamic state does not affect human rights. You can do what you want, provided that your actions are within the law and with respect to other people's rights," he said.

Stressing that he was speaking in his personal capacity, Abu Talib expressed indifference to whether Malaysia was labeled an Islamic state or not.

"It doesn't really matter to me so long as I'm not forced to do anything against my will... That's the basic premise," added Abu Talib, 69.

Deputy Prime Minister Najib Abdul Razak sparked furore in July among non-Muslim minorities when he reiterated claims that Malaysia was an Islamic state.

Legislating religion

To question on the apparent reluctance by Civil Courts judges to hear cases on religious conversions, Abu Talib said the courts should not shirk from its duties.

"Don't just take the easy way out and chuck it out. That's not the way the courts should function. The court should deliberate on the functions of the law, analyse the law.

"As in the past, you could see pre-1993, the judgments were all well-reasoned. They analysed the applicable law, they identified weaknesses of the law and suggestions in some cases that 'this needs to be done,'" said Abu Talib, who served as attorney-general from 1980 to 1993.

Abu Talib also pointed out that religion cannot be legislated as it was and that several examples in the Middle East have shown problems arising from such attempts.

"The more you legislate on it, there'll be more trouble. How can you legislate on belief, on the faith of a person? You cannot!. Attempts to legislate on religion will invite trouble. That is my personal view," he said.

As the government is expected to amend legislations in dealing with such matters, Abu Talib cautioned government advisers to be prudent in conceiving any new law.

"The government is not lacking in legal advisers. I'm not the government's legal adviser, unfortunately," he quipped.

'Not pressured'

Abu Talib also refuted suggestions that Suhakam could not function effectively due to pressures from the government. Instead, Suhakam "engages" the government and their various departments based on the issues at hand.

"These exchange of views cannot be construed as pressure. Of course, no government servant likes to be crticised so they try to justify (their actions). But my view is, if something is wrong, however you attempt to justify it, it is still wrong," he said.

Abu Talib also denied that the government had intentionally ceased the services of 'more vocal' commissioners, such as former Chief Justice of Malaya Anuar Zainal Abidin and former Federation of Malaysian Consumer Association chief Prof Hamdan Adnan.

According to Abu Talib, the Suhakam chair has no hand in the selection of commissioners nor was he privy to the basis of appointments made by the government.

He maintained that Suhakam's present crop of commissioners too had consistently criticised the government and several departments over similar human rights violations such as police abuses and the use of the Internal Security Act.

Part 1
Abu Talib: Regrets I've none
Q&A: Why the sex tape was destroyed

Part 2
AG ticked off for 'taking risk'
Q&A: We're gov't advisors, not supporters