In this first of a two-part exclusive interview, ACA whistleblower Mohamad Ramli Abdul Manan tells malaysiakini about the embarrassment and humiliation he felt after he was put in 'cold storage'.


Malaysiakini: How did you feel when your report became major news. Suddenly you're in the limelight. Did you expect that?

Ramli: I don't expect anything. I want to lead a quiet life. I didn't ask for this. We, ACA officers, do not need to be seen. We should be heard.

You claimed that you were placed in cold storage. How long was this for?

Six years. In 2001, when I felt that my services were no longer required, I submitted an application to transfer service. At that time, I was under contract until July 2003. So I forwarded my application to become a lecturer in UiTM (Universiti Teknologi Mara) and as a legal officer with the judicial service.

And this was rejected?

Yes, they refused my application. They did not forward my application. For no reason ... I don't know.

So for years you did nothing in the ACA office?

I did nothing. For six years, I punched in my (attendance) card and got my salary. They gave me RM8,000 for doing nothing. (But) I did volunteer to handle some big cases.

Why do you think they put you in cold storage?

Because they felt it was difficult to interfere in what I do. This is because once I'm on my case, I would never allow anybody to interfere.

And this happened when you were in Sabah?

Yes, in Sabah.

They transferred you to the ACA headquarters in Kuala Lumpur because of the way you handled your cases in Sabah?

Yes, correct.

How long were you in Sabah?

About a year plus.

What position were you given when they transferred you back to KL?

No position, no office, no table. I looked like a squatter. (I was) squatting around.

You were forced to look for a vacant desk?

Yeah. After a while, I gave up and did research at the library instead. I wrote a letter to the DG (Zulkipli) and said that since I was not being given a job, I might as well spend my time in the library - I went to the Universiti Malaya library.

So eventually you did not go to the office?

I did not go to the office because I felt so embarrassed, so humiliated.

Didn't any of your colleagues feel sorry for you?

When you are in that position, you are shunned because people don't want to be seen with you. Six years (laughs). But some people say why worry as long as they pay your salary. Below the DG, I was the most senior officer and (yet I had) no position.

At one time, they gave me a very low position. I said if that was the case then I might as well leave. It was humiliating.

What were you doing before you headed the Sabah ACA?

I was with the Johor ACA.

Was it around the same time when Zulkipli was there (as Johor police chief)?

Yes, it was. I was there at the same time with him only for a few months because after that I went to do my masters (in business management at Universiti Putra Malaysia).

Did you know Zulkipli when he was the police chief during your stint in Johor?

No. He came when I was about to leave. So it was just a coincidence.

How long have you been with the ACA? Where were you before that?

I have been with the ACA since 1978. (Before that) I was in the military. I was the technical officer with the army's technical and mechanical corp.

I began as an investigating officer in the ACA headquarters with the special investigations section. After that, I was the deputy director in Kedah, Perak, Negeri Sembilan. Then I was director in Kelantan.

After this, I came back to the headquarters and headed the disciplinary branch. Our job at that time was to investigate cases that couldn't go to court due to lack of evidence. We study the evidence and determine whether there is a case to initiate disciplinary proceedings. If there's a case, we would tell the police. I was there for one year.

Then I went to Malacca as director, and Johor after that. Then I did my masters. After that, I was posted in Sabah.

The police came to interview you on Monday. How many people were there?

Three of them. We went to the Seremban police headquarters.

How long were you questioned for?

From 11am to 9pm.

Ten hours - that was a long session.

I gave more (information) than what was written in my report (which was sent to ex-police chief Bakri Omar in 2006)

What kind of evidence do you have against Zulkipli?

We have evidence. I already gave all the evidence (to the police).

Any documentary evidence?

(Usually) there is no documentary evidence in corruption. Corrupt practices are never put (committed) under your name. So there has to be extensive investigation.

This is the only way you can find out the links between the suspects and their properties, because their properties will never be under their names. That is the challenge to the investigator. We can show that the wife, or whoever, may not have the money to buy such properties.

What's your reaction to Zulkipli's assets declaration? (It was reported that Zulkipli had listed five properties and no business interests in his previous assets declarations)

It is under declared. There are so many things he did not declare.

When did you decide to probe Zulkipli?

When he became director-general (in September 2001). Information started to come to me and other ACA officers.

How did you get the information?

Face-to-face meetings and on-the-spot inspection (of properties) with informers.

So you did your own investigation?

Yes. Of course, I had to. I had to confirm (the information). Otherwise, I cannot be writing something [...] What I was writing (in the report) is the information (I have gathered) and to ask the police to commence an investigation. This means my information has basis and there's truth to it. Otherwise, I won't recommend it.

How did you confirm the information?

Interviews and all that. At that time, the information kept building up and it (the investigation) was done for a few years. In 2004, I wrote to the previous (ACA) deputy director-general (Mohd Zawawi Mohd Nordin). I told him, "You have to investigate him (Zulkipli)." There was no response.

What about the letter to the former IGP (Bakri Omar)? Did you get a response?

No, no response.

What do you think about The Star report which quoted an inside source as saying that you did not perform well in the ACA?

If you have an officer who is not performing and he is willing to leave, why should you keep him? I wanted to transfer out. Only a mad fellow would not allow that. I also wanted to go on optional retirement but that was also stopped.

How does your family feel about you being in the news?

Normal-lah (shrugs)

But this is not 'normal' - you're the main character in all that has happened.

They think I'm the accuser. That's a wrong terminology. If you write the letter then you're the accuser. In my case, I'm not the accuser. I'm an ACA officer! It is my duty to detect and investigate. I'm not accusing. I get information and if I feel that there is a basis for an investigation then I have to commence the investigation. If I can't commence the investigation on my own, I have to pass it to somebody.

If not for the ACA chief, I would have opened four files based on my information. The reason why I can't open the files is because he (Zulkipli) was there. He would have stop me.

What would those four files be?

Various aspects of his (alleged) corruption. The (alleged) sexual assault has been investigated by the police and they did not come up with enough evidence.

But sexual assault is not corruption.

Yes. But the main issue is that you don't interfere with the investigation. He (allegedly) threatened witnesses and assaulted the victim, asking her to withdraw the report.

Do you know the woman?

Of course, I have verified everything. If not, I won't bring it up.

Have you met her?

Yes, but I think she refuses to take my calls now, especially after all this. My phone has been bugged. Whoever calls me, they'll know. All my incoming and outgoing calls are being intercepted. You hear clicks and interferences on the line.

How do you know it's bugged?

I was told about it.

What are your expectations when you go before the Parliamentary Select Committee on Integrity meeting (which was cancelled yesterday)?

I don't expect anything. I don't know what they are going to ask me.

And how do you feel about seeing Zulkipli at the meeting?

We will be at separate meetings. Mine is in the morning.

What's your relationship with Zulkipli like?

I don't have any relationship with him. He never calls me and I don't see him.

Did you ever make an appointment to see or talk to Zulkipli?

Yes, I did. I met him once when he came to the ACA office (after becoming DG). I told him he should transfer me to another post. He said he would look into the matter but nothing came out of that. When I wanted to go on optional retirement, he stopped my optional retirement.

If you apply for early retirement, would you still get your pension?

Of course, because I am on the permanent entitlement scheme but according to the civil service circular, if you are dismissed from your post (then you won't get your pension). They were trying to dismiss me from my post. I don't think they have anything, but they were trying to dismiss me.

What reason did the Pensions Department give you (for not paying pension)?

They said they based their decision on a letter that Zulkilpli (had allegedly) sent, which said that I'm still undergoing disciplinary proceedings.

What kind of disciplinary proceedings?

I don't know. They sent me a show cause letter after I retired (laughs).

What was the show cause letter about?

That I did not punch in my (attendance) card (laughs). That was what they said. That was when I went to the library and did not punch in my card.

They (Pensions Department) have no authority to withhold my pension. So that's why I have to go to court. They have no reason whatsoever. What they are doing is illegal.

They have no reason to stop my request for an early retirement. They have no reason to reject my optional retirement (application). They have no reason to stop my pension.

During your time in ACA, were you ever accused of not performing in your job?

No. They should have sent a letter but there was no letter. They should have called me for a talk or something, but there was nothing.

There's a procedure to follow. First, you call the person in. Second, you give him a warning letter. Third, you can take disciplinary action. This is the procedure in the civil service.

Some say that you are doing this because you harbour a grudge over your lost pension.

You see, the most important thing is the information (evidence). As far as I'm concerned, what matters is the content of the information. That's what is important.

What made you pursue this (investigation against Zulkipli)?

Officers have been telling me (to do something about Zulkipli). They expected me to do something. I'm not the only one. Some of them (ACA officers) have written anonymous letters to the PM (prime minister) about Zulkipli.

Ninety-five percent of the officers don't want him. The remaining five percent are those very close to him because they get promoted.

If there were so many against Zulkipli, why were you the only one willing to expose the information?

Because some of them are afraid. I think they have more information on Zulkipli than what I have.

I told my (then) deputy DG (Mohd Zawawi Mohd Nordin) and recommended (to him) in 2004 that Zul be investigated. I told him my information on Zul was much, much better than what I had in the Kasitah Gaddam's case.

You have stronger evidence against Zul than in the Kasitah case?

Yes, yes. So I volunteered to head the investigation against Zul - as director of operations.


ACA whistleblower tells all

Part 2
'Dr M punished me for Kasitah probe'
Q&A: They have let me down