America delighted KMM members arrested

Last July, prior to her appointment as the new ambassador, Huhtala said in her nomination statement to the US Senate Foreign Relations Committee that the US-Malaysia relationship "is not perfect" though generally a "positive one".

She said the US remained concerned by the case of jailed former deputy prime minister Anwar Ibrahim and the treatment of political dissidents, with obvious reference to the two-year detention of six Keadilan leaders and pro-reform activists under the ISA, which allows detention without trial.

If appointed, she was quoted as saying that she would continue to press the US' views on these issues and work with Malaysia "to develop modern political freedoms to match its modernising economy".


A number of local civil groups and politicians are worried that the US will ease its pressure on Malaysia with regards to human rights after the Sept 11 attacks. Some argue the US' Patriot Act is similar to the ISA.

First of all, we have not changed our commitment to promoting human rights and democracy one ounce. We are still as committed as we ever were to those issues.

In fact we will soon be publishing the human rights reports for the year 2001. They will come out on schedule ... February, I think. But the draft is in its final form now. You will see that it will raise all the same kinds of reactions that it always does. It will also show that this US administration, like all of its predecessors, is firmly committed to the importance of human rights. We haven't downgraded that at all in the wake of what happened after the terrorist attacks.

There has been a lot of confusion about our USA Patriot Act and some of the measures that we are taking in the US to crack down on terrorism. You have to remember that we are in a very new situation. We are responding to a terrorist attack of unprecedented magnitude and we have to look to our own security.

We have put in place measures aimed at non-Americans, foreigners who are present in our country who have terrorist associations. Those are the people that these laws are aimed at. A number of them have been detained, some of them are charged with crimes related to terrorism, some will be charged to other crimes: immigration violations, things like that. Some will probably be deported, some will be brought to trial.

But we have the right and the necessity to do that because of this terrible threat that we are facing. It is still a threat because the al-Qaeda has other plans to attack us again. Whether they can do it or not, we are going to make it impossible for them to carry out those plans but they have said that they have the plans and the intention to come after us again.

We cannot stand passively by when they are planning to kill many more of our citizens as they already did. So that's why we have this new Patriot Act.

It is not at all the same as your ISA. We don't use the Patriot Act against Americans. We don't use it for political reasons to crack down on political opposition or anything like that. We would never use it for that. And even within that, for the people who are caught up in the Patriot Act, they have access to legal procedures, the appeals process and the rule of law in the US.

So it is not as exaggerated, or as dangerous, a law as it had been portrayed in the press. It's actually very well reasoned out.

It also boils down to the question of interpretation. For instance, the recent ISA arrests by the Malaysian government of 13 alleged Kumpulan Mujahidin Malaysia (KMM) members could have been defined as a violation of human rights but now it may be categorised as an effort to counter terrorism. Where do you draw the line?

The critical thing to remember about all these arrests that just happened last week is that, from everything that we understand, they are arrests of bonafide terrorists who are planning violent activities.

We absolutely would want your government to arrest them and we were delighted that they did so. We have been calling on nations around the world to round up terrorists because we know that they are present in many, many different countries. You would not want us to say that Malaysia was harbouring terrorists if the government knew that they (terrorists) were there and they didn't go after them.

No, they are doing the right thing. If you discover that they were terrorists operating on your soil, you have to arrest them. That is what we are doing with our Patriot Act as well because there are networks of terrorists all over the world related to this al-Qaeda and other organisations. I think every civilised nation has to take strong steps in this regard.

The government has linked the arrested militant group members to the opposition, specifically PAS.

It depends on whether or not that is true. I don't have any information about that. I don't know whether there are any links between the terrorists and PAS. I hope not, I very much hope not and it may very well be the case. But that is what the Malaysian government has to determine obviously. They have to worry about their own internal security.

The first step, I think, is to arrest the terrorists and then conduct a thorough investigation. That is what I understand they are doing right now and I say more power to them. If it turns out that there are links to political parties, well, that's another whole set of problems. The first thing is to prevent acts of terror that could be in planning.

You once mentioned before the US Senate that one of the key areas to work on was the human rights situation in Malaysia. Do you feel that in the short time you have been here it has become better or worse?

There are encouraging signs. I think the movement toward greater judicial independence is a very encouraging sign.

Even with the furore over the person chosen to be the new attorney-general?

I have not met him yet. I will seek an appointment to meet him and we will be looking at what he does in office but I certainly have no reason at the moment to think that he is not going to continue the move towards judicial independence.

I certainly hope that he will because that is really a fundamental element of a free and democratic society. That's why we are watching the appeals for Anwar very closely because our position is well-known.

We do not think that he had fair trials the two times that he went to court. It could be corrected in the appeals process. We are going to be watching that very closely.

So the US government has not inched on its views (on Anwar's case)?

That's true. We feel that the trials were manifestly unfair.

What about the judicial reforms in the past year? At the end of 2000, a report by the International Bar Association said Malaysia's judiciary was in jeopardy.

I have not made a study of it myself, but my understanding is that the chief justice (Dzaiddin Abdullah) is quite committed to the idea of improving the judiciary here. He seems to be working in that direction.

I hope to have a meeting with him soon to discuss this in some detail but I have a favourable impression of him and I hope he will continue in that vein.

After the 1999 general elections in which Umno lost some ground among rural Malays to PAS, Umno seems to have become more vocal on its own Islamic agenda. Do you see that as a worrying trend?

I have a hard time figuring out what the Islamic agenda is. As a non-Muslim myself, I have studied about Islam, I have read about it and I have even read excerpts from the Quran. It seems to be a religion that does not advocate hatred, or terrorism or fighting other races. It seems to be very similar to the Christianity that I myself profess.

I think that if you really have a pure Islamic agenda, it would be something that no one would have problems with it whatsoever. We have made this point very often in the US that we are not having a war against Islam, not in any way. We are going after these terrorists who happen to spout their own version of Islam. Many respected Islamic scholars have said that what these terrorists have been saying is not true Islam.

I am not qualified to say what is or is not Islam. I am just an interested student of it but I think it is important for the Muslim majority in this country to think about these issues.

Up until now, Malaysia has been known as a moderate Islamic country. That is something that we like very much and we would like to see continue. In other words, that is a country that does not go for extremes. It does not advocate hatred or attacks against the US and provides for the equal rights for all of your citizens.

The best thing about Malaysia that I have noticed so far is that the Chinese and Indians live side by side with Malays and there are no evident ethnic frictions. Everyone celebrates everyone else's holy days, Deepavali and Christmas and it is Chinese New Year soon. And we have just celebrated Hari Raya last month.

There have been changes in government policy where Employees Provident Fund (EPF) investments will be retracted from the so-called haram companies involved in liquor and gambling. But quite a lot of EPF members are non-Muslims.

I would have to take a look at the Islamic nature of some of the things they do. But if it is nothing more stringent than taking away investments from liquor and gambling, I don't think it is very threatening.

A lot of pension plans in the US pulled their investments out of cigarette companies a long time ago for similar kinds of reason. They felt that it was not a good thing to have your money in there for non-economic reasons. I don't see a trend of terrible Islamisation of a nature that would be threatening to us.

And your New Year's message to our readers?

I would like to say to all the readers of malaysiakini that I send my very best wishes. I think it is exciting that you have this alternative news source on the Internet. It is very cutting edge and I think it is a very good thing to have to enhance the freedom of speech and opinion in this country.

As I mentioned earlier, I have been reading malaysiakini for some time now and I wish a Happy New Year to all of your readers.