Chinese Malaysian writer Ouyang Wen Feng, who recently acknowledged his homosexuality in his book 'My Journey', concludes in a two-part interview with malaysiakini that he considers himself "a lucky gay man".

Malaysiakini: Why should the gay community reflect?

Ouyang Wen Feng: The gay community has to think. (The problem is) first, we internalise homophobia and second, we also do not really believe in pluralism.

We also believe in certain things (that the rest of society also believes). We discriminate against other people, like gay people who are less attractive. We look down on homosexual men who are 'sissy'. We do think that they don't make us proud, and we blame them for that. And I think this is wrong.

I think the root of heterosexism is sexism. It's because subconsciously we believe men are superior to women. So it's not okay for men to behave like women. But it's perfectly okay for women to behave like men.

So a lot of the time we have positive attitude towards lesbians, but we have very negative attitude towards gay men, because we think of the gender role between two gay men.

We think that gay people are like womanised men, and since we believe that men are superior to women, so gay people are wrong. It's a type of degradation. That is why we look down upon them.

The whole problem is not really about sexual behaviour. You see in straight pornography, there is a lot of lesbian sex there. A lot of straight people love to watch women having sex. They love to see lesbians do all kinds of sexual things, but they hate gay men.

Why is that so? It's because the root problem lies with sexism. So this is what we should focus on, and dismantle all kinds of sexism.

Are you willing to make the sacrifices, even if it means you will not be allowed to write anymore?

Compared to people in the 15th century, when people were burnt at the stake or killed for having different opinions from mainstream society or churches, I am lucky. I consider myself to be very fortunate. And I should make good use of this fortune to write more and to do more. I don't think I will be killed for being an openly gay man.

You are a celebrity to an extent. How will your call to come out resonate with the layman?

I can't emphasise enough that everyone should come out to themselves first, and see how you will come out with your friends, your family. I do not encourage everyone to come out publicly, at least not the way I am doing now (at a book launch). However, I believe it is not that scary to come out. Take Jessie Chung (of Sabah) for example, the trans-gender. A lot of people love her. It's not that scary. It's more difficult for her to come out than for me.

When did you first realise you were different?

When I was four I already knew that I love looking at good-looking people, a good-looking man or boy. At the time, when I think back, I didn't know that it was a problem, I thought everyone was like me. I knew when I was very young, but I tried to deny myself. I said to myself, that this is just a phase that I would go through sooner or later, before I met a women who could change me. Of course slowly, you know that, you should marry a girl and be with a girl, in a sexual way.

Did you think you were bisexual?

I used to see myself as bisexual. It's easier. At first I thought I was straight, then okay, no I'm bi. When I am bi, I am heterosexual, so it makes me feel better. But if I really try to be honest with myself, I know I love men sexually. I know that is what I really want.

Finally I have to come out, no I'm not bi, I'm gay. My sister was very shocked to hear that I'm gay. My sister is like many in heterosexual society. They think that homosexuals are feminine, they like to cry all the time.

My sister kept telling me 'no, you are not gay ... You love to go to the gym, you like to work out, you have a black belt in taekwondo. You fight like a man'.

This is why coming out is so important, because you challenge all those stereotypes. My sister was very shocked. But she loves me, she trusts me. She's okay with me now.

You spoke of the possibility of joining the clergy and setting up a Christian gay movement in Malaysia. Is that your future plan?

Yeah, that is what I plan to do, what I'm going to do. I plan to start a church. I won't say a gay church, but a church that welcomes everyone. An inclusive church that would help everyone grow spiritually and intellectually.

I wouldn't say Malaysia is an Islamic country. We should make a distinction between an Islamic country and a Muslim country. I believe Malaysia is a Muslim country, not an Islamic country.

Even so, I believe it is not easy to do that, but I still think it's possible. I believe it's important to keep trying and to see what we can do. It's good to come out. It's not the end but the beginning. Something wholly good and wholly new, to try to come out with yourself, and your friends and to be an authentic human being.

You are a well-known writer and journalist in Malaysia. Compared with other gay people, I think you have some privileges. Did this play a part in your coming out?

Yes, in many ways I think I am more privileged that a lot of people. I was educated in the US. I have two masters' degrees, one in sociology and in theology. I am finishing my PhD dissertation in sociology and I am working on my doctorate in theology.

Yeah, this is true that I have a lot of privileges. And because of that I think I also have the responsibility that other people do not have. I feel that it's my obligation to do more, since I know more sexuality and I think it's my obligation to contribute more to the gay community.

What if Malaysians say that many marriages would be wrecked by what you are advocating?

I'm glad you asked this question. I'm not asking all gay husbands or lesbian wives to come out and say 'okay I want a divorce'.

When you enter a marriage, whether you are Christian or not, you have certain responsibilities. According to your religious and cultural background you have different understanding of what the obligations are, but still we have some responsibility or obligation. I think this is something that has to be decided between two people.

I'm not saying that we should come out and leave out partner. I didn't do that in my case. She (his wife) pulled me out of the closet. Of course I was the one who tried to tell her the truth about who I am, but she keep asking questions, she kept probing.

And she already knew I was gay because she was a very intelligent woman. But still, she wanted me to articulate it myself. So in a way, I see her as pulling me out of the closet.

This is a mutual decision to come out publicly and to leave the marriage behind. It's not a decision where I decided 'okay, I'm coming out and leaving the marriage'. It's something that has to be resolved between two adults.

How would you describe your former wife?

I would say she is the best and most intelligent human being I have ever met. I used to believe that she is an angel sent by God to get ride of my gayness. But now, I really see that she is indeed an angel, not to help me to get rid of my gayness but to help me embrace my sexuality.

And I consider myself a lucky gay man, I feel a need to help my fellow Malaysians, even if it meant sacrificing everything. But compared to what I have already received in the process, any loss would be nothing.


Part 1 - Ouyang: Heart of the matter