Prime Minister Dr Mahathir Mohamad today held a one and a half hour dialogue with civil society members on a wide range of issues including press freedom, the ban on opposition ceramah and merit-based university admissions.

The open dialogue was held after the prime minister delivered a speech at the Malaysian Institute of Islamic Understanding's forum on the theme 'Tolerance - the Malaysian model'.

Present were those representing political parties - both opposition and government - the media and non-governmental organisations (NGOs).

During his speech Mahathir said that, "Tolerance only exists when one's own self-interest is secure or if it is profitable. Those who claim that tolerance is virtuous and a civilised attitude, are making hypocritical claims."

During the dialogue, PAS vice-president Mustaffa Ali questioned Mahathir on his view. Below are excerpts.

Mustaffa Ali: I agree on certain issues you mentioned in your speech but I disagree with you that tolerance is based on self-interest. The conclusion you made is dangerous for the nation what more when it comes from the most influential person, the prime minister. You also mentioned in your speech that religion teaches tolerance, so it is contradictory.

On the issue of ceramah you have consistently crtiticised the United States (US) and the United Kingdom (UK) on many things yet you agree that parties in the two countries make no political speeches after elections unlike in Malaysia. But they don't need speeches there because they have a free press.

We on the other hand have not been allowed ceramah and we lack freedom of the press, therefore the space is very restricted. The government is not tolerant of differing views and we need to correct this.

Unseen hand

Mahathir: In Islam they say that slander is worse than murder. Islam as a religion is good but there are certain quarters that have twisted it and they attack us with it. Not only that they are quick to use the law for their own interest.

Speaking about the US and the UK, we admit, they do have a free press but the question is who owns them. I don't dare mention names but we know who they are. What is published is always on the side of the owner of the media as they have their own interests.

Have you ever seen them report positively on Islamic countries? There is no freedom in the US and the UK or anywhere else due to the 'unseen hand'. There is only one opinion, theirs.

We should not be carried away by their rhetoric and our own people should not support them. We have proof of their injustices, they do not have freedom.

(Mustaffa was referring to the government's recently enforced directive in mid-July ordering a blanket ban on all political ceramah.)

Another participant, Bernama executive editor Azman Ujang asked Mahathir if the issue of meritocracy would be introduced into the sphere of the civil service.

Azman: Is it possible that the civil service will be based on the principles of meritocracy giving non-Malays a chance to be admitted into the service?

Mahathir: I am trained as a doctor and as a doctor I cannot prescribe too high a dosage. If we are to correct a situation we must move step by step. If we succeed then it is good but certain patients do not like the taste of the medicine prescribed. But if we can succeed with one then the rest would surely follow.

Universiti Kebangsaan Malaysia lecturer Sharifah Hamzah asked Mahathir to comment on the separation between politics and education, saying that many issues had simply become 'too politicised'.

A dichotomy

Sharifah: Meritocracy should be the final aim and not the means. We must foster meritocracy not only among the students but also among academic staff. Because we don't encourage heterogeneity so now we are dichotomy. You have the public institutes of higher education which are mainly Malay and you have the private institutes of higher learning which are exclusively non-Malay.

More importantly, we must also stop politicising issues of education. We can ban discussions on issues of Malay rights so we should also ban the politicisation of politics then only will we be able to progress.

Mahathir: I agree education should not be politicised. Unfortunately when we try to free students from one kind of politics, they invariably move on to another kind. There are certain schools where children are taught to hate the government, ministers. The child's mind is very receptive when you teach to hate from young. They will grow up with hatred.

We don't know if we can separate these students from these kind of politics. If we do then it is good.