Winds of change are blowing through the Malaysian Trades Union Congress (MTUC). It may be a mere breeze now, but there is potential for its force to build, its president Syed Shahir Syed Mohamud tells malaysiakini in an exclusive interview.

Malaysiakini: On a scale of 1 to 10, where would you rank the MTUC now?

Syed Shahir: How do I answer that? It's quite difficult. Just like the Malay saying... I don't want to be seen as masuk bakul angkat sendiri (indulging in self-praise). How do I do that? I really don't know.

I believe that now the working environment is much more lively here. I should put it that way... people come and go, you know, on and off, which is kind of interesting. People are coming to the offices of the vice-president, the committee and holding discussions. Quite interesting that this is happening. The office environment and working relationship are much more conducive now.

(Perhaps) it is because of the understanding (among) people who have been elected, people understand each other well as they are come from the same place, share the same views, the same objective as a whole. I don't think we have the ranking here. You must ask someone else out there (about this). You have put me in a very difficult position by asking me to talk about this (ranking).

So, how long before you can rank the MTUC then?

Say, in another six months' time. Yes, I had a vision when I contested the post but you cannot measure anything within 100 days. This is not like cross-country running, you know. Even prior to the Triennial Delegates Conference, I found it quite difficult to rank the MTUC, what more now. How to measure, what is the criteria, the standard that we are using for this?

Let me put it this way, it's quite satisfactory... quite satisfactory. If you just want a numerical kind of thing, then its quite difficult. I maintain that its quite satisfactory at the moment. But you must bear in mind that we're just slightly over 100 days. You can't expect tremendous changes within a short period of time. You have to allow us some time for us to see (how things go). Then, it's fair that you talk to others who can look from outside, particularly a non-participant who is not involved directly. That would be much more sincere and frank, I suppose.

What changes do you expect in the MTUC in the next six months?

We are going to have our May Day this year in Dataran Merdeka for the first time. We're going to have it at night ... on April 30 night, for the first time too. And then we're going to gather as many workers as we can. I think that more or less can give some indication as to what is our position now. If the support is there, then perhaps you can rank us 1 or 2 or whatever.

We want to see the support from the general workers because we have our affiliates... fine, but then every time we have our May Day we have it in the hall or an indoor kind of thing, or even if its outside, within a limited area. Now you have a bigger area like right in the middle of the city and if you can only bring a handful of workers to Dataran Merdeka, that will indicate something else

From there, we can see if people are coming and after that, if there is a strong commitment that they want to support this tradition for the betterment of the workers, all right then, I think we can take it from there. The expectation of members, affiliates and even the general public is very high, so it's not an easy task. I'd say it's a rather tough one. That is something you have to fulfill, your pledge.

At the same time, you have to be practical in the sense that within a short period of time you cannot expect tremendous change in any organisation. But we are working towards change for the better. For example, now we are talking about teamwork. When we talk about working as a team, you have to have a good team as well...meaning people who at least share the same aspirations, ideas and goals as you. (Also) people who are prepared to work within their ability and to fulfil their objective of the organisation.

Are new committees being created to cater to a more focused approach?

No, we're not creating new committees to add to those provided for under the MTUC constitution, such as a meeting to plan for seminars and getting more organised. The working committee is talking about how to bring in more members into the MTUC, how to re-activate those who have not really been active over the last couple of years. The education committee, for instance, has met and charted its plans on activities for the next 12 months. Others such as the research committee, environment committee and consumer committee all have started their meetings. So have the women's and youth wings. Of course, the committees are merely carrying out the decisions of the working committee comprising the principal office-bearers of the MTUC.

So, over the last 100 over days, which is a very short time, you can see that activities are moving towards to improve the organisation. The committees have been up and meeting regularly. They have their plan of action, have set their own agendas for the next one year. For example, we in the working committee have scheduled our meeting for one year and will hold regular meetings.

In other words, activities have been going on in this organisation, even at the division level such as in Kelantan, Penang, Perak, Sabah and so on. We also emphasise on working and trying to be more focused in our own work. In other words, the question of internal bickering and leadership tussle should not be the kind of focus among the affiliate unions. Let us work together. At the end of the day, our agenda is to do something for the betterment of the workers. We should work towards that. In short, we've been right on track.

Since your team's victory has been hailed by many as the best thing that could happen to the Malaysian labour movement in present circumstances, do you feel pressured to bring about instant changes?

Trade unions are always pressured to perform. Of course, that is the nature of our job, the nature of our work as trade unionists. While there is no extraordinary pressure, there is however an increase of pressure. But bear in mind, unionists are normally under tremendous pressure from their membership, subordinates and all that.

For example, you are negotiating with the employer and there is pressure from members who expect the best out of the company. Do you think they'll be happy if we conclude with say, X percent of increase in salary? Of course they'll say no because they want better. That is definitely pressure on you and you cannot run away from that.

I think the membership wants changes, for example, on the question of security of tenure or job security. Of course a lot of people ask what the MTUC can do in terms "can I have a job tomorrow?" or "do we have a future?". If that's the case, what kind of future are we talking about? Secondly, you're talking about a minimum wage. They are looking at whether you can get the government to introduce that in this country. Can we achieve that? And of course, they're also talking about Employee Provident Fund dividends, for a better rate from the lowest to something more acceptable to the contributors. These are among the issues workers are concerned about now.

I mean, its always nice to hear people praising you... that is normal. But if everyday someone praises you, it seems a bit... If you're really my friend, for instance, you'd say "brother, there is something I want to tell you, this is what you're supposed to do to improve". I'll be more than happy to do that. In fact, every time I go for a meeting I say this "please send me anything that you think can improve the organisation". If you think it's worthwhile giving comments or ideas or proposals, then go ahead and do it. I've no problems with that, even your criticism I will look forward to so long as it is meant to improve this organisation. But you must also stand by what you say because I would want to argue with you based on my own reasons for doing things a certain way. At the end of the discussion or argument or dialogue, leading to the idea of thesis, anti-thesis and synthesis that we should be open about.

The MTUC has been perceived as not having much clout in pushing for national policies. Do you agree?

I both agree and disagree. We have been pushing for a number of things such as cases pending in courts. Now, the government's expanding to 30 courts and increasing the number of chairpersons which is good. The splitting up the Industrial Relations Department for Selangor and Kuala Lumpur is also done and will be operational sometime later this year. So, it's not totally true to say that nothing has been achieved.

But if you're talking about policy like minimum wage, that we have yet to achieve. I don't know (why it has not worked so far) but I believe that it relates to the leadership of both the government and the MTUC itself. This is why we need to strengthen, mobilise and consolidate our leadership. We're trying to bring more people in, trying to create awareness, consciousness, try to get more young people and women into the mainstream. Only when all these people enter the mainstream can we be much more forceful.

Do you think the MTUC should broaden its representation and protection of workers rights to areas beyond strictly labour issues such as price hikes on essential goods and services and the environment?

Yes, because workers are human beings. We inhale air, drink water, we eat, we sleep, we need shelter. We cannot restrict our scope because workers are the largest consumer group in the country. We cannot say that this is an environmental or consumer issue, and not a workers' issue. We cannot have that sort of mentality. We have to be more open about it.

For example, if water is privatised we're going to be affected by it. We cannot say it is the issue of consumers... we are the consumers. The privatisation of healthcare is also something that will affect us all, our family, our children. Another example is the issue of logging, air pollution. So, what do we do? We cannot say it's an environmental issue but not a workers' issue. We must get involved in it, make it our business. But whether or not it will be of priority to us is a different matter because more pressing concerns would take precedence.

We do have an environmental committee and a consumer committee. The consumer committee is getting involved with the campaign against water privatisation. Bottom line is, we cannot be apathetic towards consumer or environmental issues as we are the consumers who are affected by our environment.