In an exclusive interview with malaysiakini, MCA secretary-general Ting Chew Peh talks somewhat reluctantly about the party's current leadership, the Chinese school controversy and how the party operates in a constrained political climate.

Malaysiakini: It has been three years since Ong Ka Ting and Chan Kong Choy took over the party's leadership. What changes have taken place and what can we expect in the future?

Ting: Frankly, it's not very pleasant to talk about the performance of my own colleagues. The best thing is for the members to see for themselves. It's not for me to say. I could be seen as very subjective. This question I will try not to answer as it is not very pleasant to talk about your colleagues whether they are good or not good. Either way is not very pleasant.

Maybe you can talk about the things they could do to improve the party...

No. I will not talk about that. I would only talk about the party in general. The questions that I can answer I will answer.

The allegation of phantom voters always arises during party elections. How clean is the electoral roll for the coming party polls?

This question was raised during the 1980s. The fight between (former party president) Tan Koon Swan and Neo Yee Pan. That was the major problem. After that they even went to court to clear names... Then in 2002, this question was raised again. I remember 13,000 members were alleged to be phantom members.

To us phantom members mean people who do not exist or who are not Chinese. We sent the whole list to the (national) registration department for verification. When it came back, it was all alright except that there were some they were not able to verify (as) I think some have the same IC numbers. Just a small number (were affected) but a majority were genuine members. After that people were quite satisfied.

Our list is verified every three years. There's a possibility that people may have died in between, and that this has not been reported to us. If nobody reports, there is no way for us to know. That's not a phantom voters problem but an administrative problem.

Every elections would have disputes. We have to face it. If there's a new application (for membership), it might not be approved yet. Not everyone knows that you have new members.

Our national organising secretary Ong Ka Chuan has been very careful in dealing with this issue. The electoral roll was approved by all central committee members.

We received some complaints but some were without basis. The number was very small. We have to be very careful in transferring the members. For example if A division has 52 members and three applied to be transferred to B division then A division will only have 49 members. It cannot be a division as the minimum number is 50. So every time party elections near, the name transfer would not be processed. Every application of transfer should be handled carefully.

MCA is making efforts to recruit younger members, especially professionals. Does this reflect a concern that the younger generation is not attracted to the party?

We have to look at this issue from a more positive angle. At the moment we have young members and they comprise one-third of our numbers. We have young professionals but we need more. The young ones may need some time to learn as the old ones retire.

Some of the young ones have already been in the party for some time. They did not suddenly fall from the sky. The present president was already very active during the time of Tan Koon Swan (during the early 1980s).

How efficient do you think the code of ethics has been in preventing money politics during party elections?

Since 1990, we have had a code of ethics in every election. Nothing is perfect just like any other law. There are a 1,001 ways if people want to involve (themselves) in money politics. The code is just a deterrent and tells the members to please follow the rules.

This is just a preventive measure. All this while money politics has never been serious, not in MCA. We see things around us like money politics in other parties so we want to have a preventive code of ethics.

I don't see MCA leaders using money to buy votes. Since I have been in MCA, no leader has used money to buy votes. So far we don't have that complaint.

The party's lifelong learning project has been seen by certain quarters as MCA distancing itself from mainstream politics in Malaysia. What is your comment on this?

MCA does not shy away from politics. MCA is a political party, we still concentrate on the party agenda. We promote national agenda and we tackle all issues. We don't go out and shout. We work within the framework of Malaysia.

We must consider the needs and aspirations of all groups, as we are not the only group in the country. Every time we talk we have to think of other groups as well. We have to think about sensitivity. Every time when you talk about religion, education and culture you have to be very careful. Anyway, we work in the framework of BN (Barisan Nasional).

The party recently called for more Chinese schools to built. There was talk that MCA did not really tackle the problem especially in dealing with some Umno politicians and leaders. What's your response to this?

The PM has already clarified that it should not be made a big issue because the position of Chinese schools is already stated very clearly in our Education Act. Whatever we do as a political party, we also work within the framework of all the existing acts, the laws of the country.

Do you think this should not be seen as an issue then?

I don't think I want to discuss it any more. I have said enough, so let our four (MCA) ministers discuss this with the education ministry.

What's the role of MCA particularly in this issue...?

(Interrupts) Whatever the issues, all of our members are Chinese and we are reflecting the wishes and inspirations of our members in particular and the Chinese in general. If we have some problems, if people down there expect something to be done, then we have to bring this up to the authorities concerned. Either with the cabinet, BN or some ministries.

Why suddenly this issue (Chinese schools)...

(Interrupts again) I am not talking about this. I am talking about something different you know. We should be talking about life long learning...No...... I already said political agenda is still our main concern because we are a political party. But when you talk about Chinese education issues, the PM has already clarified. We are quite happy the PM recognises the status of Chinese schools. He also said that regarding our memorandum, we can discuss it with the education minister.

Do you think MCA has played an important political role in this issue?

Not just this one, also in the teaching of Mathematics and Science in English.... We also forwarded our views, the views of the Chinese community, the views of Chinese educationists and the views of grassroots members. I think this is our job as a political party. We want to help solve national problems and promote unity.

There's another issue the community is concerned about. Nanyang (Siang Pau, owned by MCA's investment arm) is losing money...

I am not going to talk about this. I am not the director. Let the director to talk about it.

...Lifelong learning project is just one of our programmes. We have programmes under education, social, culture and different bureaus. This is just one of our education projects. We feel it's important to instill the importance of learning among our members and Malaysians. Hopefully with this project we can at least increase the competitiveness of all Malaysians.

You have been secretary-general since 1990 and are considered as one of the most veteran and experienced leaders. From that position, do you think the party's leadership is headed in the right direction since the 'peace plan' was brokered in 2002?

This is a very tricky question. No. I don't claim to be one of the most experienced, less still veteran. I may be 60 plus but that doesn't mean I am veteran and experienced because you have to see the number of years in the party.

I became active only when I came in through the by-election in 1987. Only 18 years. I don't think I can claim to be so experienced. The present leaders including the president and deputy president, when I joined through by-election, were already very active. Talking about veteran, they are more veteran.

The present leadership, cc (central committee) is trying its best to do something to prove itself that MCA is trying to deliver. So far so good, working together very well. You don't expect 100 percent unity and consensus, but overall the cc has been working very well. They are moving along the right direction and doing fairly well within our present political environment.

Do you think it's easy to break the present environment?

There are constraints, you cannot say there is no limit. There are constraints. In the BN structure, you must know where the limit is. (This applies to) Every group, political party, not just MCA, you must know where is the limit. You must work within the framework. You can't achieve 100 percent. What you want you may only get 80 percent, then you are very happy. Sometimes you get 70 percent or 50 percent and there's a compromise, as you always have to think of other people's feelings.

Is the new leadership working closely with Chinese associations?

So far the new leadership tries to work very closely with Chinese associations. I am very objective, even during (past president) Tun Ling Liong Sik's time. He had tried very hard to work with the Chinese community because it is the source of MCA's support. So it was the same thing during his time. Now the present leadership is just continuing the policy that he laid down.

Dong Jiao Zong (DJZ) is a very influential Chinese education group. But it has been seen to be not very co-operative with MCA...

No, we have been talking ... this is a bit sensitive. But MCA is willing to listen to all groups including DJZ. We may not agree with what they do and their approach but we are always willing to listen and we have listened in the past.

Did you work together with DJZ in drafting the Chinese education memorandum?

The memorandum has already been submitted to the PM.

What are the contents?

All the controversy is about this memorandum.

I thought the controversy is about the pledge (to increase Chinese schools) in the 9th Malaysian Plan?

Yes, the 9th Malaysian plan. We have our approach as we are a political party. DJZ is a NGO. But we are always willing to listen, not only to DJZ but others as well. If they have a problem, they can come to us.

What does the memorandum contain?

This you must ask the president.

But the contents have not been revealed...

Although this has not been released, it is already creating so much misunderstanding. So how to release? We have agreed to leave it to our cabinet ministers to discuss with the education minister.


MCA has not eschewed politics, says sec-gen