Kelantan Menteri Besar and PAS spiritual leader Nik Aziz Nik Mat spoke on the Islamic state, hudud, Umno and Malay special rights in an interview with malaysiakini. The following are excerpts:


Malaysiakini: Since Sept 11, PAS has been continuously linked to Islamic extremism.

Nik Aziz: Since we were established in 1951, we were opposed financially, physically and spiritually. That is why, the opposition towards us now, by the so-called majority, is nothing new.

The pressure is also not new to us, even though we call ourselves a democracy. But it is democracy in words only. We are not allowed to hold ceramah (political lectures), publish newspapers, therefore, the 'democracy' here merely exists to kill democracy.

The government had declared a state of emergency on us before [in 1978]. After that Umno members created trouble for us here in Kelantan for about two to three months. During that time, we cannot speak or hold ceramah. Then the government called elections. Of course, they won.

I have said before, if the government wants to feature the Memali incident in the media, then broadcast the May 13 racial riots as well.

We consider all this [accusations of militancy] as a whirlwind. When there is a storm, we stop for a while. When the calm returns, we rise again.

We reject taking up arms. We believe as long as the Malays have accepted Islam, all we have to do now is improve their [knowledge and practise of] Islam.

Barisan Nasional recently announced that Malaysia is already an Islamic state. What is the difference between BN's and PAS' Islamic state?

Umno is not qualified to speak about the Islamic state. Umno is a nationalist party, it not a Muslim party. When a party that defends nationalism begins to speak about an Islamic state, we become suspicious.

Umno's behaviour raises many questions. Firstly, before it declared Malaysia an Islamic state, the party had called for a total ban on the usage of the word 'Islam' in political parties and non-government organisations.

Secondly, it said that an Islamic state is not feasible in this country as Malaysia is a multi-racial country. According to their definition, no country then in this world can become an Islamic state as all countries from Malaysia to Indonesia, Britain, China and Pakistan are in a way, multi-racial. According to Umno, this whole world is a 'black area' for Islam. There seems to be no 'white areas'.

Then suddenly they declare Malaysia an Islamic state. This is what causes suspicions. We will only believe them if they change their party from a nationalist to a Muslim party. We will believe them if they call for the constitution to be based on the Quran and Hadith. Do it in a way that whoever goes against Islam goes against the constitution, and vice-versa. Then there will be no room for criticism. Then we can talk about brotherhood.

PAS insistence on the Islamic state issue also raises suspicions among non-Muslims.

We will dialogue with anyone who doesn't understand what it means to be an Islamic state. What is it that they cannot understand? Is it our faith, practice, or way of worship?

The Chinese and Indians can talk to us. And we will talk and make them understand. Islam is open to all. Allah is international, so is the Quran. If the Malays can accept Islam, why can't others?

I do not mean you have to convert when you accept Islam. If you do, then thank God, but if you don't, it is alright. There is not much difference after all the roads are still the same, the parking fees are still the same, only the laws are different.

The hudud law has frightened non-Muslims.

We are not implementing the hudud laws yet although the state and the sultan have given their approval. But we have been warned by Prime Minister Dr Mahathir Mohamad who said, if PAS implements hudud laws, the government will take action.

And so I thought, Mahathir is planning to declare a state of emergency and cause the rakyat (citizens) to suffer. Why should we make everyone suffer just because we want to impose one thing. In Islam there is a saying, "Do not lose everything simply because you want something".

Without hudud we can still implement many laws according to Islam.

What then is your model of an Islamic state?

Thank God, Islam did not make a human being, or a country, a model of Islamic state. The model of an Islamic state is one which strictly follows the Quran and Hadith. What is right according to Islam, even if no one does it, we should do it. What is wrong, even if everyone does it, we should not.

Is banning entertainment outlets part of your plan

What do you mean by entertainment? Do you mean we can only have entertainment when we have Mak Yong, dancing and night clubs. Walking on the beach, spending time with your family, even reading a book is entertainment. Why do we limit the definition of entertainment?

We ban gambling as it will bring no good to anyone, only the towkays (businessmen). Also, you cannot gamble alone, you will have to involve others.

We allow drinking of alcohol, we have given out licences. You can drink as much as you want, we do not stop you but do not involve the Muslims.

We also ban wayang kulit (shadow play) because it is dongeng (fairytale).

We want the people's mind to be filled with reality, not fantasy. If the play is about reality, real stories about our Malaysia heroes, then we will allow them to be staged.

Do you think the government will ban PAS?

Do you think Umno will sit still if there is no PAS. Remember PAS is their common enemy. It is like this, when the cat is away, the mouse wants to play. It doesn't only play, it bites everything that comes into its way.

Look at Umno, it has been split in so many ways. There is Semangat 46, Keadilan, the Malay Action Front and so on. If there is no PAS, the situation may be worse for Umno.

There is also another problem if the government bans PAS. We may move underground and that is more dangerous for the government.

What about the Malay special rights issue as advocated by Umno?

In Islam, there is no concept of race. God created many races as a means to identify people. Like you built a car, you need to name it Proton, and so on to differentiate 10 different cars. Malays, Indians, Chinese, we are all the same.

I have said this many times, that if there is a Chinese who is religious and is knowledgeable in Islam, I will nominate him as the next menteri besar although 95 percent of the state's population are Malays. Why not? He can also be the imam (spiritual leader) in the mosque.

What do you say to the accusation that there is no development in Kelantan?

We develop according to our needs and financial capacity. Development of roads, schools, mosques, hospitals and clinics are carried out by the federal government or private companies. It is done with their own money and we have never prevented them from doing so.

Sometimes we do not know what they are up to. We don't ask if they are following the proper procedure or not. We don't care. Some projects by the federal government are done without our knowledge. So one day we asked them, "Do you think this state has no leader?"

But we are happy that we do not owe anyone any money. We will also not ask for loans, knowing we cannot get them.