Journalism can be a thankless task at the best of times, but to be a journalist in a country like Pakistan can be downright life-threatening. The media watchdog Reporters San Frontiers (RSF) has ranked Pakistan 128th (out of 166 countries) in terms of safety for working journalists.

Recently Khawar Mehdi Rizvi, an independent Pakistani journalist who has contributed to Le Monde and Chicago Tribune, was taken to court for his role in helping two French journalists do a report on Taliban activities in the north of the country. Ghulam Hasnain, who writes for Dawn, Herald and Newsline, was interrogated by Pakistani intelligence operatives and set free only after signing an undated suicide note. During the past two years the Pakistani Human Rights Commission has recorded at least fifty attacks against writers and journalists in the country. In the midst of all this, the Daily Times of Pakistan is a newcomer to the world of Pakistani journalism, but it has already made an impact. Based in Lahore and now with its own Karachi edition, the latest English-language newspaper in the country has been making a stir with its thought-provoking editorials, op-eds and investigative journalism. Though Pakistan has had to live with decades of military rule, heavy censorship and sectarian conflict, its local press - both in English and Urdu - remains as a model of hard-hitting journalism at its best.

FARISH: For the benefit of the Southeast Asian readers, can you tell us a bit about the Daily Times and how and why it came about.

EJAZ: The foundations of the Daily Times were laid around October 2001. Najam Sethi, the chief editor, headed the team and worked very hard to make it gel. We wanted to create a new daily newspaper that would have something different to offer to the Pakistani readership. Najam had earlier launched The Friday Times, our weekly newspaper and it's a big success story. We were therefore under pressure of our own performance at TFT to also make a success of the Daily Times. When we first mooted the idea, many people came back to us with the same question: 'Why another English-language paper? Aren't there already enough papers in the country? Wouldn't we just be fighting for a slice of an already small pie?' My response was this: we wanted to create a new paper for the English-reading public because we wanted to give them something different and something that would stir up debate and get people thinking. Basically our aim was to improve the quality of Pakistani journalism with editorials and op-ed pieces that would get people to sit up and react. Till now I feel that our editorial and op-ed pieces are the most varied, challenging, thought-provoking and informative of all. Already our pieces have provoked debate and discussion in the press, a first for Pakistan. Despite being the newest English-language paper in the country we have proven to be more than a match for the other established papers like Dawn, The Nation and The News. While Dawn remains the undisputed winner as far as sales are concerned, we have noticed that The Nation and The News have been forced to revamp their format and presentation thanks to our arrival. This shows we have made an impact. We now have an edition in Karachi, which is the financial hub of Pakistan and also the city with the biggest English readership. Our on-line version has been scoring more and more hits, practically on a daily basis.'

Q: Lets talk about the editorial content and op-ed pieces. How would you describe the political slant of the Daily Times and what are you trying to do on the op-ed pages. I've noted that the Daily Times is unique in the sense that it has opinion pieces from all over the world, and your 'Purple Patch' column also features excerpts from works of social sciences and the humanities. Is there a pedagogic approach at work here?

A: I played a major role in putting together our team of writers and columnists. I was basically looking for people who could write short, concise pieces that would raise questions and make the readers think. Our orientation is that we are democrats and liberals - though not in the latest Washingtonian sense of the word. We are constantly calibrating our approach to guide public awareness and discussion on matters of national interest, for we want to see a democratic, moderate and progressive Pakistan and we want to create an intellectual environment where that can happen. So the editorial and op-ed pieces we feature are geared to that end. We invite alternative views so that people can learn from each other and learn to differ and discuss in a civil way, without falling into grand narratives of hyper-nationalism, etc. We also wanted to open up the mindset of the Pakistani readers. After all, if Pakistan wants to be a nuclear power then its people should learn to empathise with others. That is why we feature news and columns about developments in Latin America, Africa, Asia, Southeast Asia and that is why we have people like you writing for us, so that our view of the world is not solely focused on Pakistan all the time. Pakistanis need to realise that the world is huge, complex and evolving all the time. They cannot be stuck in one corner of the world while the rest of humanity is going in all directions. To create an open, plural, democratic Pakistan means opening the minds of Pakistanis too, hence the need for a newspaper that is not exclusivist or parochial in its outlook.

Q: So you believe that this exposure to alternative opinions is conducive to creating a democratic civil culture in Pakistan? How does this work?

A: Today there is a greater demand for news and experiences from abroad. Foreign contributors remind us that there is another world out there beyond South Asia, and that there are other issues beyond things like the India-Pakistan relationship. Take Africa for instance: we know little about it and yet many experiences in Africa are directly related and relevant to us. We are all developing countries and the problems they face - from HIV/Aids - rise of sectarian conflict to micro-level problems of economic dependency and uneven development - are directly relevant to us. How Africans deal with these issues may help us in Pakistan deal with the same problems as well.'

Q: Moving from that let me ask you about the future of South-South co-operation, particularly in the media field. I for one am an advocate for more South-South co-operation, particularly in the area of the media. Thus far efforts to create a Pan-Asean media network have not succeeded, and I think that is a shame. Why do you think we haven't got very far in this respect?

A: Ironically the internet has partly solved this problem, as news and information from the developing countries can be accessed much easier now. But you are right in the sense that direct joint ventures between news and media companies has not really gotten off the ground. As far as collaborative ventures in this region are concerned, not too long ago some Pakistani newspapers lobbied for open circulation of newspapers between India and Pakistan. The governments of both countries were opposed to this, obviously. But ironically some major Indian newspapers and media companies also opposed the proposal for economic reasons. But whatever the reasons may be, there is an obvious benefit to such South-South co-operation. For a start, once local papers go regional or even global, they will have to learn how to communicate their concerns in a more subtle, sensitive and intelligent manner. No Indian or Pakistani paper can sell across the border if the writers take a jingoistic, sabre-rattling attitude, clinging on to their grand narratives of exclusive nationalism. They will learn that the regional and even global readership is a complex one that has to be addressed in a rational, civil and open manner- this is good for journalism and good for bilateral relations. So I am all for it, though I have to admit that we are not there yet.

Q: Talking about journalistic ethics and codes of conduct in the media, I am always amazed by the level of press freedom and activism here in Pakistan. In the Asean region the most visible transformation was the Indonesian media in the post-Suharto era, which evolved from being one of the most servile and quietist in the region to the most vocal, articulate and progressive. Here in Pakistan journalists and newspapers have had their share of problems, especially during the period of dictatorial rule under General Zia 'ul Haq. How do you account for the resilience of the Pakistani media?

A: Our experience is particular to our own difficult history. The Pakistani press first got its whiff of freedom during the time of the leadership of President Muhammad Khan Junejo, who was really the first true democrat in Pakistani politics. He was the one who first gave the media the freedom to operate in a truly objective and professional way. But even before that the Pakistani media has had its share of hard knocks. During the time of General Zia, Pakistani journalists were constantly harassed. Journalists were 'called up', arrested, interrogated, tortured, even flogged in public and killed. But even during those days the Pakistani media refused to play by the dictator's rules and we struggled for our right to do our work. After the fall of Zia it has been the press that has been at the vanguard of the democratisation process.

Q: Is the Pakistani press freer today? Have you experienced any difficulties in your work and are the bad old days of bullying journalists over?'

A: I personally have had no problems with the government thus far, but even now - under the Presidency of Musharraf - there are journalists who have been 'called up', threatened or roughed up. The risks remain, and in most of these cases these problems arise when journalists touch on issues like the army's corporate interests or the corporate affairs of powerful and connected individuals. This is particularly true of local provincial journalists who write for the smaller papers. The media world can be rough: the more prestigious the paper you write for, the more protection you get. But there are many courageous local journalists who write for the smaller provincial papers and who expose these micro cases of corruption or abuse that are particularly targeted, and in some cases the consequences can be very serious. However by and large the Pakistani press has come a long way, though we had to fight hard for it. I think in the whole of Asia, the press in India and Pakistan remain the most vocal and brash. But even the Indian media, thanks to democracy and corporatisation, has begun to mouth the official consensus. Here in Pakistan we have really had to struggle for our rights and paid with our lives. Despite the overwhelming odds and threats, we remain vigilant and stick to our journalistic ethics.

Q: Now a question about the differences between the English and Urdu press here in Pakistan. The Urdu press dominates the Pakistani media scene and I've noticed that the Daily Times even has a regular Urdu press review. How different are the two? And finally what can other journalists from countries like Malaysia learn from the Pakistani experience?

A: The Urdu press is widely read, much more than the English press, and it has been exceptionally good at exposing corruption among the elite in particular. Some Urdu papers even have special anti-corruption teams that monitor the business activities of politicians and businessmen. But on social, cultural and political matters the Urdu press can be downright conservative - one would not call them progressives by any stretch of the imagination. On issues like Pakistan's defence, relations with India, the Kashmir issue, culture and religion, etc. the Urdu press can be quite nationalistic and reactionary. One cannot compare it with the Indonesian vernacular press, which has spawned a host of progressive newspapers in the Indonesian language. Otherwise as far as journalistic ethics is concerned, I think there is tremendous solidarity and commitment among journalists here in Pakistan. As for countries like Malaysia, I think Malaysia can be said to be a victim of its own success. Prosperity has made countries like Malaysia and their societies complacent. You did not have to struggle against a military dictatorship like we did, and your lives are comparatively easier. Here we still have to deal with serious structural problems like the civilian-military imbalance, uneven development and sectarian conflict. But in Malaysia the people have grown comfortable, journalists become lazy, or in some cases even frightened to rock the boat. But you cannot have journalistic freedom without fighting for it. The government is not going to hand it to you on a silver platter. If you want to have a free press, then the media in Malaysia will have to pay the human cost for it, and sacrifice as we did.