Q&A: Ngeh is my trusted deputy

Ousted Perak menteri besar Mohd Nizar Jamaluddin reveals that he was unfairly targeted over his relationship with DAP leaders. Edited excerpts follow from the second and final part of his interview with Malaysiakini.

Malaysiakini: How would you describe your relationship with Ngeh Khoo Ham and Nga Kor Ming? They have been following you to quite a number of ceramah in Malay areas.

Mohd Nizar Jamaluddin: Yes, YB Ngeh wanted to make use of a golden opportunity which he did not have over his many years being an assemblyman in a Chinese-dominated area.

When he was selected as a member of parliament for Beruas, which means now he also has to (be attuned to) Malay voters in Beruas, particularly in Pengkalan Baru. So, I was the only person he would cling to, to achieve that.

So, again, the thinking of the public and the Malays would have been, ‘Look, YB Ngeh is in control of even Nizar. Even in a temple, even in a mosque, even at a Malay upacara … he is there’. You know what I mean?

But, he being a new member of parliament for a Malay area like Beruas, he never had got that exposure before while he the assembly(person) for Sitiawan. It is a highly Chinese area.

The fact that he wanted to be with me was because I was the only (channel) for him to (be able to enter a) mosque, for him to come into a (Muslim) religious function.

He sat for a function with me until the end, which no Chinese leaders have done, not even from MCA. I have not seen any MCA leader saying prayers with me in the house of a Malay family, (whose member had died in a blast in a factory).

If Umno leaders want to use this (to attack the PAS-DAP relationship), then people will say that your thinking is still traditional, you are not being contemporary, and you are not up-to-date. I think it is an advantage for us.

YB Ngeh (left) is a senior exco member. So rightly, if the menteri besar is not (around), then he assumes the position of the acting menteri besar.

And in a way, I think what YB Ngeh did is also to changed the mindset of DAP members who, probably due to Umno and Barisan Nasional, fail to understand the Malay culture deep enough.

So what Ngeh has done is actually a sacrifice. To open up the minds of DAP members and supporters. So I think that was a great challenge for him. I think he has gained respect in DAP now, not only in Perak but also in the whole country.

Since he can assume the post of acting menteri besar when needed, does this mean he is your trusted deputy?

Trusted deputy? Definitely, because he - being a member of the House for the last three sessions - is an opposition leader and a very senior lawyer. The trust just builds. And I don’t see that as wrong.

In fact, I should be doubling that trust, not only in him but also in a few others who have that same qualification and experience in the House. YB Nga, YB Seah (Leong Peng), YB Thomas (Su)… they have been in the House longer than I have, or more than any PAS assembly(person) for that matter.

Do you blame Ngeh and Nga for having a part in the fall of the Pakatan Rakyat?

No, no. If I do that at all, then it would be very wrong of me.

But there are some quarters who say that they could have prevented (Jelapang state representative) Hee Yit Fong (of DAP) from defecting.

That is very much (an) internal (issue). I do not want to comment. But I have tried to play a role in harmonising all 31 members of the House as a single entity. I have never differentiated them as assembly(persons) or exco members, or (that they are) from PAS or DAP. I treated them (all) the same.

How did you ‘harmonise’ the state representatives during that crucial period in early February when the collapse of the government was imminent? How did you convince them not to defect?

Well, Hee did not actually exhibit any possibility of defecting. During the several short dealings I had with her, there was no indication that she would go to that extent.

And knowing Jelapang (folk) and her traditional Chinese family, that would have been a cardinal sin. So, I did not want to think that way (that she would defect) - unlike (my feelings about) Osman and Jamaluddin, who I had suspected would defect.

I did not think that way (about Hee, right ) due to my association with my Chinese friends in Kampar when I was small.

A fight is a fight, and you do not compromise on your principles. That was what I learned from my friends in Kampar. Even in the Chinese business communities that I was involved in, they never say die.

There could be some other factors which changed her mind, I do not know. So when I had that information (that she was defecting), I tried to cool down the (others).

One or two of them were saying, ‘Forget her, let’s rule her out’. But I said, ‘No, let us try our best. Can we have a team comprising of persons who are close to YB Hee?’

That was a crucial moment, in early February. I said, ‘Can we have YB Zainuddin, who could talk in a very diplomatic manner, and Dr Lee Boon Chye, assigned to talk to YB Hee?’ I went to that extent, because I thought that maybe she could not get along with the DAP leadership.

Later, I got messages from Pakatan Rakyat leaders, saying that we should not take any more risks because, if after 24 hours, DAP leaders still could not contact her, then something was greatly wrong.

So I took their advice and made a decision - although a few others disagreed, I did not regret that - to seek audience with the sultan (to obtain the dissolution of the state assembly).

What was it like when the Osman and Jamaluddin went missing?

(Osman and Jamaluddin was reported ‘missing’ days after Bota state representative Nasarudin Hashim briefly left Umno to PKR on Jan 27. But on Feb 3, Nasarudin rejoined Umno)

It was difficult when the two of them went missing. But at the time, it was not critical because we were being assisted by Nasarudin (Hashim).

When Nasa (left Umno to join us), that gave us a few more days to play. But if Nasa had not moved into Pakatan Rakyat, then I would have been in utter difficulty at that time, because we would have a majority of (just) one at the time.

Would you say that Nasarudin was a Trojan Horse?

I don’t think so, because Nasa left Umno with the sincere interest of leaving a party which is heavily dominated by racists as well as corrupt leaders. And he expounded that, he said that during his press conference.

He was not given any promise by (PKR de facto leader) Anwar (Ibrahim) or me. And I asked him personally, ‘What made you come in?’ (Nasa, right ) said it was just his pure feeling of maximising his effort, his strength and his service for the people.

Also, of the 28 assembly(persons), he was the only one whom I could single out as someone who showed personal integrity. He did not shout madly and yell abuse like the others. So I could tell from the assembly (proceedings) that he was a respectable man.

The Nizar interview

Part 1

Nizar: This is no mere by-election

Q&A: If I'm a traitor, what would that make Umno?

Part 2

Nizar answers 'DAP stooge' allegation

Q&A: Ngeh is my trusted deputy